Welcome Cutters!
Posted: April 4th, 2009 | Author: admin | Filed under: Uncategorized |This blog site is for pros and newbies alike. It is intended to promote a creative dialogue between those individuals who are actively involved in the “Invisible Art of Film Editing.”
Craig McKay, A.C.E.
“The essence of cinema is editing. It’s the combination of what can be extraordinary images of people during emotional moments, or images in a general sense, put together in a kind of alchemy.”
Francis Ford Coppola
Hello Sir,
I would like to know what are the abilities one have to aim to become a film editor. Is there any particular skill or talent one need to have before deciding to become a film editor. I am an engineering gradute but have alwasy had fascination towards films, i would love to say things my way in the medium of films. Since i am thinking of totally changing my career path by quitting my engineering profession, i am trying to figure out if i have it in me to become a film editor, for example one who can communicate well can chose to be part of media and entertainment or one need to be able to draw well to become a painter,similarly is there anything one needs to have to become a film editor.
I feel since u r a film editor and also may be have come across very many editors too, you could help me know what qualities one needs to have to be able to become a editor .
Awaiting your opinion.
thanking you
charu
Charu,
You need to have a strong sense of story–study it and become a good story teller.
You need to have a high degree of emotional intelligence–study and learn how people behave.
You need a strong visual sense–study photography and composition.
You need a strong sense of rhythm–study music or an instrument.
you need to be computer literate–learn Avid or Final Cut Pro.
These are the initial abilities you will need–all of them can be learned!
Hi, nice posts there
thank’s concerning the interesting advice
Congrats on a beautifully designed and written blog, Craig! Style and substance is hard to pull off (and don’t we know it!)
Your first post on Editing Concepts has already given me things to think about. I concur with your “sleep on it” advice - works every time.
Craig,
Congradulations! What a wonderful idea and so beautifully executed.
As you put so well, editing is the heart of the filmmaking process. For me the aesthetics and the grammar of film are all important. It is my long held view that study of these subjects will lead to a deeper understanding of editing and how, as a director to get your vision on the screen. Ideas are all important as well as concepts these must be part of the editors training. For the last 12 years or so I have taught a continuing ed class at SVA called The Art of Editing. The class begins with a shot by shot analysis of the conclusion of All That Jazz and Ends with experimental films such as Brakhage’s Dog Star Man analyzied in the same manner. The aesthetics and grammar are there for all. It’s how you apply them.
Again great just, a must needed blog!
Peace,
Vinny LoBrutto
Craig –
Thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for this blog. The ACE’s emphasis on tech issues, in AmericanCinemaEditor, emails and programs, has made us our own worst enemies in creating a false impression of what us cutters actually contribute to the films on which we work. Your focus on storytelling, emotional intelligence, rhythm and composition is spot on.
I suspect “The Cutter’s Way” will do more to enhance understanding and respect for editing, within and outside the filmmaking community, than any public relations campaign. Cinematographers — who are constantly asked about their facility with new toys rather than how they’d light or compose — and other filmmakers will benefit as well.
I hope to contribute when I can.
Thanks again, and congratulations.
MM
Craig thank you for this thoughtful site. I enjoyed reading how you approach a scene mentally before physically.
I wonder if can say more about two rules that you have laid out, and the contrast with Ed Dmytryk’s advice to cut away to reaction as soon as the audience knows what the character is going to say, not wait for them to actually finish on camera.
(Never cut out of a shot before the actor’s dialogue is finished (I’ve been known to break this rule)
(Overlap only incoming dialogue.)
Craig-
Very nice. This blog goes to the heart of what we do.
Adding to John’s comment above, Eddie Dmytryk’s rules were based on language and his understanding of it. In particular, the English languages puts the predicate in the middle of the sentence. Therefore, a person (or character) would react to a line before the line is finished- he would already know what is being said. Dmytryk becomes almost didactic in his book about how many frames early to cut to the reaction. It comes down to one quality for an editor that you only alluded to, but did not spell out: talent!
Lou Lombardo told me that the hardest thing for an editor to learn is when to NOT cut. Ironically, at the time, he held the record for the most picture edits in a feature film (The Wild Bunch). I think these rules about cutting to reactions should be tempered with the understanding 1) that it’s not just what someone says, but how they say it, 2) not just the text, but the subtext, and 3) is the reaction that you’re going to cut to tell you more than staying on the shot?
Craig-
Wonderful site and a great approach - there are far too many out there who know which key to press and think that makes them editors!
When I was a young assistant (just a few years ago[ahem]!) I worked for a wonderful man, since passed on, named David Newhouse. He used to say to me, “Ornstein my boy, there are many cutters in this world, but damned few editors.”
I remember his words and try to live up to them. Thanks for shining a light on what editing is really about. I’ll be visiting this site often!
To John Duffy A.C.E. and Michael N. Knue, A.C.E.
With much respect for Edward Dmytryk, our philosophies are different. As Michael points out, Dmytryk’s overlap decisions were based on the audience anticipating the language. I believe, when an audience gets two pieces of information at the same time—they have to stop, take the time to separate out that information, and then move on. So when Dmytryk cuts out of a shot before the actor has finished a line, because he thinks the audience is anticipating what’s going to be said, and then overlaps it onto a new shot at the same time—the audience has to adjust by separating that information—this effects the momentum of that moment and of the narrative. For me, it’s seems easier for an audience not to have to make that adjustment. That’s why I say “never cut out of a shot before the actor’s dialogue is finished.” Now, I’ve also said “I’ve been known to break this rule,’ this mostly happens when I’m trying to get one actor to interrupt another.
Conversely, “overlap only incoming dialogue,” means the audience hears part of the dialogue before it happens—with this forward movement there is no need to stop to go back to figure it out—its fed to them—everything keeps moving forward.
Michael, talent is way too subjective for me to discuss—I wouldn’t know where to begin!
I want to thank both of you very much for your input—it’s much appreciated.
Craig,
this blog is a terrific idea, thank you so much for starting this dialogue. I am glad you made clear that there are in fact, established rules for good editing and it is only when when one knows and understand the rules, that one knows it’s possible and sometimes necessary to break them. I was taught by my dad (also an editor) that one should never cut from a wider angle of a character directly into the same shot, only closer. Now I find that doing exactly that lends a certain dynamic emphasis I actually like. I also think some traditional editing rules have changed over the years as the art of editing has evolved.
Super idea, Craig! Thanks for starting this blog.
No doubt about it, knowing rules of editing is important and, it seems to me for each film I edit, I must discover new rules to use with that unique combination of director, DP, actor, era, style. But for me Intention is thing! How I use the rules, the decision to follow or break a rule is based purely on what I intend to evoke, reveal or create. Which leads to my question…How do you determine what each scene needs to accomplish? And, when? Do you know right off the bat with the very first edit you make? After viewing the first assembly? I think I tend to construct and discover as I go along, then go back and reassess each scene but, I’m curious, what is your experience?
Congratulations Craig for setting up such an incredible site. I look forward to watching, reading and contributing to it.
Best,
John
Regarding Lisa’s question about when an editor determines the intention of the scene:
I think it is a constant process of discovery. When we first sit down with dailies we have one impression based on that particular single scene, performances and coverage … but there is not yet any context. We work on this scene, then that one and yet another without the perspective of the whole. When people ask me during my assembly if it’s a good film I can’t answer because I haven’t seen it yet! It is not until my cut is nearly finished and I take the time to sit back and watch the whole (a rare luxury these days) that I can begin to judge. And then when the fun really begins and we mold the editor’s cut into something that begins to resemble a film, the intentions that we started with change with the individual scene’s context within the whole, so we adjust.
There’s a constant shift that I often liken to a pendulum swinging: maybe the first cut has all the heart but where’s the cohesive story? … cut, cut, cut, cut, cut … now the story’s clear but what happened to the emotion? It’s a wonderful process discovering the final shape, form … and intention of every piece of this puzzle!
Even at this stage it’s
Hi, Congratulations to the site owner for this marvelous work you’ve done. It has lots of useful and interesting data.
I wrote a comment as a reply to Craig-O’s list of skills needed to be an editor, and said, not to forget about patience and perseverance, which i think is a good thing to tell newbies because it may be quite a few years before they get a chance to edit anything of significance, and they should know that it takes a long time to learn all the skills mentioned above, and not to be discouraged.
My post was on this page for a half a day or so, then disappeared. Did someone decide it wasn’t worth keeping on the blog, and delete it? Is that how this blog will work? Or will all comments relating to a particular topic be retained? I’d like to know before bothering to compose any more comments.
A website about editing? this is so great
although the one rule i follow in this digital
age is - if you think it, you may as well try it.
Terry,
Sorry, I’m not sure what happened to the submission–I’ve had considerable trouble setting this site up, and there have been numerous problems. I want you and everyone to be able to use this site to contribute all of their thoughts and ideas for our craft without prejudice. If you would re-send that blog to me, I will happily post it immediately–My intention is to retain every submission, and I will look into this further with my website administrator–I have no interest in losing a valuable contributer.
Regarding the disappearing comment, thanks for the clarification. Must have been a blog glitch. I didn’t save the text anywhere else, but the comment above is a pretty good summary of it anyway, so not to worry, and thanks for taking the time to help communication among editors and other interested parties.
Craig,
Thank you so much for taking the time and effort to share your knowledge with this blog.
I just read your editing concepts and do in fact have a question about your rules. You write to “Always cut to an action” and “Never split an action across a cut—it weakens the cut.” I always thought it’s best to cut “on movement”. How can one cut “to” an action?
Lets take a fist fight. I learned to cut on the impact of the punch for example. But wouldn’t that be what you call “splitting up the action”? I’d love if you could explain your two rules a bit more.
I also would like to know what your position on “empty frames” is. I know some editors like to stay on a cut for a tad longer than others. For example, when a car exits the frame, many cut on the “tail light out”, but some let the car exit fully. What do you usually prefer and why?
Thanks again. This is a truly inspirational blog!
Best wishes,
Carsten Kurpanek
Hi Carsten,
Here’s my own two cents on your intriguing post.
Rudi Fehr told me that John Huston did not like to cut on an action like someone sitting down in a chair. He wanted it played in one if there was coverage he didn’t want a match cut.
About empty frames, I usually advisel my students at SVA to not leave any empty frames because it leaves the eye “hanging there and causes a break in the action. Of course the exception is if you want a slower pace for story reasons then leave the empty frame for a beat or so. My feeling is if something is done with a deliberate sense and is consistent within the style of the film it will work.
Craig,
What a wonderful opportunity for editors of all genres to come together and learn from each other. I myself have learned quite a bit from studying your work over the years. In regards to the above conversation, I would like to add that while the “rules of editing” are very important exceptions to the rules can be-at times-more important. Context often determines when a rule should be followed or broken. Where is the greatest emotional impact achieved? This is where intuition takes over. Your “gut” will sometimes lead you to break the rules.
Carsten,
When I say, “Always cut to an action,” I mean that each cut must move the story forward in some way, and action can do that—like cutting to an eye shift, a smile, a body turn, drumming fingers, taking a step, removing a weapon, wiping a tear away, falling down—any action big or small gives the audience new information and keeps the story engine moving. Cutting to a shot without any discernable action is what I avoid.
In your fistfight example you’re correct, cutting to the impact of the hit is cutting to the action! But here’s what I mean, if an actor on the “A” side of the cut steps forward, then turns back on the “B” side—don’t split that action! Have the turn happen only on the “B” aside—splitting the cut mid-action weakens the edit. The audience then has to process that action—whereas, if you feed it to them in a linear fashion, they can easily take it in.
About leaving a shot on an empty frame—generally, I don’t leave on an empty frame, except if I need an extra beat to make the next cut work.
Lisa.
I agree with you “Intention is the thing,” and the rules of film grammar only serve as guideposts for clarity. As for me, if I have a script, I generally know the intent of any scene—no script, I have to go find it! I tend to follow the story’s premise as a guide. When Jonathan Demme and I worked together, we used to have an expression “The Film Speaks.” This means that at some point, rules or no rules, the film will tell you what it needs—if you’re intuitively willing to listen.
I have always said that the best editors are the ones who listen carefully. If you are listening to the emotional subtext, the story will help lead you to the right decision editorially. I remember reading a quote by Auguste Rodin. It said something to the affect of “… I don’t sculpt the stone, I merely free the image from inside of it.” In a way that’s a lot like what it means to edit. Editors basically cut away some pieces so others may shine. Freeing the image from the proverbial stone.
Craig,
Thank you so much for producing this blog on the art of editing-and sharing some of your priceless experience, and, creating a place where others can do the same. Cool!
I’m not sure I know what you mean by “clean frame of action” when you say: Make every cut on a clean frame of action. (In or out)
Also, could you elaborate on “rhythm your cuts”?
Jay,
What I mean by “a clean frame of action” is simply that within the frame itself—the edit is on the start of an action—not mid-action—this makes that action more readable—its not always possible to do, but I keep to it as much as I can.
Every scene has its own intrinsic rhythm based on the story, the action, and the performance of actors—this rhythm, once you’re aware of it, will dictate how you use the shots to unfold the scene. It’s the editor’s job to understand the nature of this rhythm, and then build the scene with the cuts that support it.
Thank you for your great posts and I would like to keep seeing more.
Thanks so much for putting out the energy to create this site. It should be fun for a lot of us to follow.
My 2 cents on the relationship between editing rhythms and dialogue: to me a lot gets dictated by the quality of writing and acting. On one end of the spectrum you get what I consider the least interesting writing — scenes where characters are all being honest with one another. The writer’s intent is to clarify the story for the audience. The actors pick up on that and speak in rhythms that support this clarity. The impact of those sentences often come at the end and encourage us to hold off cutting until the speaker finishes. For the other extreme — scenes in which no one is being honest, perhaps not even to themselves (a writing style I personally prefer, but no one asks me) I like to cut where I want the audience to know the listener’s response — does he or she buy the lie or is his mind maybe somewhere else altogether. (Those are also the moments when I discover the level of actor I’m dealing with — the ones who are actually giving me the reaction I want right at the moment I want to cut to it.) At that end of the writing spectrum whether sentences end on camera or not or discovering who’s speaking next is less important to me than tracking the feelings of the listener.
Why only write about editing? Give examples from youtube clips. If you want to talk about overlapping dialogue, point to a clip and be specific - at what point in the clip is a good (or bad) example.
Cheers,
DMCG
The blog and bloggers talk of the ‘Art’ of editing. Are the practitioners of editing, artists or craftsmen?
Craig it’s a wonderful site. I wonder if you knew what you were getting yourself into? Jim Clark in London tried to start one like this last year but I think there were only about 4 of us on it.
Hi Dan,
I’ve been planning to ad clips with comments at some point–especially to illustrate more complex editing decisions. Thanks for the suggestion.
Hi Bruce,
To answer your question, I feel that a film editor is both an artist and a craftsman–and sometimes a magician.
Thanks to Google Analytics, which tracks my blog, it has received well over 800 hits from all over the world in the first month–what can I say, when our process has been overshadowed by technology, I feel this is an important and necessary dialogue for all of us editors to have.
Craig,
I always thought that the best editing was the kind that didn’t draw attention to itself. By this I mean, if the audience has to stop to think about a cut they are not paying attention to the story at that moment thus pulling them out of the scene and disengaging them from the story. What are your thoughts on this subject? Do you agree?
Cliff,
I agree with you! I try to never impose myself on a cut. In the narrative form, our ability to suspend disbelief and remain invisible is essential–this can be difficult though when creating a montage–by its nature it draws attention to itself–we just have to work harder at getting out of our own way.
Craig,
I really like your comment regarding the “film speaking” to you. This is so true. When the director and I really focus in on the process of making the picture work we use phrases like, “It wants to be…” or “The story feels like it wants to move to…” We actually become vehicles for the emergence of the story. This level of “communication” with the footage is a result of extreme diligence in combing through every frame and analyzing many many possibilities. It’s about becoming one with the material. It’s true harmony!
Best,
John Gilbert, a.c.e.
Current project: American Pie: Book of Love
Universal
Thank for you starting this website. To me, the best way to learn is from practicing your craft and picking the brains of people who have been where you want to go. And from what I have noticed, it seems like it is becoming more and more difficult for young assistants to have the opportunity to do both. This site enables aspiring editors from around the world to learn those hidden little secrets that are often left untold. So, thank you for sharing your knowledge and giving us this opportunity to learn.
With that being said, I actually do have a question right now.
I watched a film you edited a while ago (”Awake”), and was amazed by the complexity of the story structure. Almost the entire film is centered around one scene and has everything else inter-cut between it. When working on a film that has a complex structure with multiple characters in different locations, how do you go about building a coherent story while creating empathy for characters? It seems very easy to lose the over-all story, individual character through lines, and character empathy. A lot of things to juggle around.
How do you approach stories like that?
Greg,
I’m sorry to say I can’t answer your question. Although I was the first editor on the film, I was not the last. The film, after completing two versions, went on hiatus for a long time to resolve some story issues, at that point I left the project. I have yet to view the final cut with its score. Even though I’m credited as the main editor, its in name only–an attempt to keep the peace.
If you would like to ask a question about anything or one of my other film, please do–I appreciate and value your interest!
Craig:
Love the blog and the variety of philosophies re: editing. Thank you for nurturing this discussion. I have a very non-theoretical post, but it dawned on me that a pool of editors might be a good place to start. I have a very nice Super35 6-plate KEM that is taking up space and wondered if anyone might know of a good home for it. I’d be happy to donate to a school or non-profit. Also have all the other assorted film-handling goodies: rewinds, splicers, etc. Please let me know if you can think of anyone who could get some use out of it. Thanks
(In response to my last question)
I understand what you’re saying. I didn’t know you didn’t finish as the editor.
I guess to simplify my question: If you were to cut a film that has a “non-linear” story structure, with lots of different story lines, how would you go about organizing the film? It seems easy to lose certain story lines, lose track of certain characters, and introduce many plot holes. I’m just curious because I edited a short film, “MUTE,” that bounced around a lot with time and it was quite a challenge for me to keep track of the events and where the characters were emotionally, and it was only an 18 minute film. I started writing out scenes on post-its and keeping them above my computer, and moving them around. Getting a feel for what was happening. Seeing it all in front of me. But it felt very hit or miss to me. It just felt like there had to be a better way. So, it makes me think of films that are feature length and wonder what people are doing for larger scale projects. If you aren’t very meticulous it could become a giant mess real fast. Does that make any sense?
Greg,
For clarity, my last response referred only to the film “Awake.”
As for your new posting–for most films, it’s essential to establish the main characters right up front–this is done, as you know, mostly in narrative films. “The audience needs to know who the story is about, what he/she wants, and what’s preventing he/she from getting it?” (these words were given me by Paddy Chayefsky, a wonderful writer) Once the ground work has been laid, the audience can then follow the each character and the story more easily. You’ve probably noticed, I’m talking mostly about storytelling instead of editing–that’s because I think the issue here is one of story; and that’s the case whether its a narrative based film or not.
I think its big time important to learn the aspects of story if you want to become a great film editor–its something that pros and newbies need to study right along with Avid and FCP–its the one thing that will separate you from the rest of the pack.
For the films that don’t have a narrative structure, its also important that they at least follow the premise or the central idea of the films subject–this too makes it easier for the audience to follow and understand what its about.
For those interested in storytelling, I would like to suggest they read: “The Art of Dramatic Writing” by Lajos Egri–I have given a copy to every apprentice that has worked for me.
Craig,
The Egri book you mentioned is required reading at many, many films schools across the country, and has been pretty much since it was first published. I kept my copy from U.S.C. and revisited it often until it literally disintegrated in my hands. What a great idea to give a copy to your underlings.
Thanks for the input! I will make sure to read the book.
I actually had another question. Can you explain the relationship between the editor and assistants? What each assistant is responsible for on a daily basis, how you work with them, what you expect from them, and what some important qualities that all assistants need to have- personal and technical? Can you break it down between interns, apprentices, 2nd assistants, 1st assistants, or however your team is structured. I’m just trying to get an idea of what to expect and prepare for.
Sorry, for all the questions! I don’t mean to bombard you.
Greg,
This blog was established to basically discuss the techniques and styles of the editing process itself. For the workflow and function of the assistants in the cutting room I suggest that you take a look at Norman Hollyn’s “The Film Editing Room Handbook.” Briefly though, my first assistant runs the room–that means organizing all the material and the work load with my crew –I merely oversee it, because I’m usually busy cutting. I always consult with my first assistant when hiring a crew person–together we look for an experienced intelligent person who has great people skills–since getting along with everyone is half the job. In addition, I always take the recommendations of professionals I trust when hiring someone– experience is necessary. And finally, as much as possible, I always try to keep my first assistant in the room with me when I’m cutting–this is how it the craft gets passed on. Also, time permitting, I let my first assistant cut some scenes, and I’m always interested in what the apprentice thinks–its important to me that everyone on my crew feel involved.
Sir,
I am working for 5 year in the field of editing, i have done lot of project like promo music album,documentry, telefilm & few serials but my ambition is film.will you suggest me how can i go in film industry. However now i am working in mumbai but till now i couldn’t contact anybody in same industry
Uttam,
Try passing your resume (CV) around Studio 18 in Mumbai, meet everyone you can, and take any work you can get!
Studio 18
A Division of Viacom 18 Media Pvt. Ltd.
402, Turf Estate, Off Dr. E. Moses Road, Mahalaxmi, Mumbai - 400011, India.
Tel: +91-22-66291818 Fax: +91-22-2491 1418
Hey Craig,
I was wondering when you start a new film, do you ever do any type of research to learn more about the type of story you are doing, the types of characters you will be working with, or perhaps even the style you are envisioning. I’m sure Directors do a lot of that, but do you do any extra work like that to really get inside the characters and really understand the story you are telling?
Hi Greg,
Yes, I’m always reading up on the subject of my next film–that’s after I’ve first read the script, of course. I’m most interested in human behavior.
I’m always thankful for all the research that the writer has done in telling the story. Narrative stories for the most part require less or no research, but I find that its totally necessary in documentaries.
As for style, I don’t think that I have a style! I think that each film is different–I try to bring what it needs for it to work in the best way.
So speaking of styles, I just watched “Philadelphia” last night and was wondering if you could talk about the editing a little bit. The process, goals of the story, styles you implemented and why, some of the challenges, or some of the things you were especially proud of. Just anything you think would be valuable to share. I still have the dvd at home so if you mention any scene in particular, I can go back and re-watch it.
By the way, it must have been a dream to work with so many great actors. I had forgotten how many stars were in that film.
RE:“The Ear Tricks the Eye” 06/02/09
…..
Sometimes you even can make the same edit as above work without using the background sfx trick. This is called a “right time, right place” edit. If you have the same continuity problem, but you can make the edit at the right time when you think the audience will emotionally expect it, and in the right place where they will expect it–everything will also seem normal also.
I also love to make bad continuity work by directing the viewer’s eye away from the “worst” part of the frame. I (we) do this by choosing the best place to cut - on a sweeping gesture for example- where your eyes are distracted from the gross lack of continuity. It’s great fun to show it to the director after pix lock and he’s seen the cut a thousand times and never noticed.
Craig, Great Blog and Forum. Thank you for opening this up to all of us. Having been one of the recipients of “the Art of Dramatic Writing” thank you again. Re:
” Watching dailies” —I concur with the importance of knowing your material. I watch my dailies when I arrive in the morning (a kem roll in scene order of what was shot the day before) and take notes. Before I sit down to cut a scene, I watch the dailies for that scene again. I’ve gotten some flack for this in the television world because of the time this involves but I will always say that that 15 minutes or 2 hours will be more valuable to me than if I jumped in and began cutting right away. After 2 screenings the scene is cut in my head. It won’t always work the way I thought it would and I go to takes that I hadn’t expected to make something work, but the structure and emotional moments are worked out during my screening time. In the television world I’ve talked to editors who don’t watch their dailies before they cut and I’ve asked about their process which is quite different than mine. They jump in and cut a scene and then check all the takes for performance. What do you think? Any editor’s comments on this?
Craig, thanks once again for this wonderful website. I’d like to ask you and other editors to perhaps touch upon the topic of changing a scene’s original intent.
Many times I’ve had to take a scene that was originally written & directed to be, say, comedic, and in the tone of the entire film it seemed out of place. I then have gone in and tried to make it less comedic and with a bit more serious tone. Or sometimes just the opposite. This misfit scene is sometimes noticed in reading the script or certainly in dailies but I would be interested to read others’ experiences in approaching a scene or sequence that they’ve had to alter substantially in tone or intent - and the luck (or lack of) that you had in finding and molding a performance to change the original intent.
Greg,
It was indeed a pleasure to cut all the brilliant performances in “Philadelphia,” especially Hanks and Washington! As for the film itself, it took a nearly a year to cut. The narrative was basically simple. Andrew Beckett has AIDS, is unjustly fired, takes his law firm to court, and dies before his trial is finished. We found that this story line was not enough to carry the film. It was then that we decided to rebuild the scenes based totally on an emotional line—that worked for us! The scene where Andrew translates an opera to Joe really represents the heart of the film, but it almost didn’t make the cut—there was a lot uncertainty about it (not with me.) Jonathan wasn’t sure but decided he would shoot as a high angle steady cam shot—sort of God’s eye view. Tom wasn’t sure but said. “Let’s just do it.” Tom came out and nailed in the first take—amazing!
One day Jonathan said, “We need an opening song, I’m gonna send a script to Neil Young.” In no time, Neil sent us back his song—we listened and couldn’t believe how moving it was. I tried to cut an opening with it—that didn’t work, too slow. So, we held onto it for a while until we realized it was our ending—the entire ending of the film was cut to Neil’s song, but we still needed a song for the opening. Bruce Springsteen was then sent a script and agreed to write a song—this time it worked. We had a great opening song, even though it took Bruce a long time to write it.
I was very much aware of the performances I had and tried to honor them in my editing. Stylistically, there are some interesting temporal cuts in the courtroom scenes that aren’t jump cuts but more like leaps forward. Also, I did a lot of singles cutting, which really empowered certain moments—like the library scene where we know that Joe is going to take Andrew’s case. Philadelphia is one of my favorites!
Hi Craig,
I was so please to read that Philidelphia is one of your favortie films because it is one of my very favorites in general and of the many, many films you have so deftly edited over the years.
I have just completed a book on Gus Van Sant and in it I talk about the editing of the film. I compare Philidelphia with Milk because they both concern Gay men who love the opera both have tragic ends and many other commonalities. I am proud to say the the opera conducting scenes in both pictures move me to tears every time I see them and often just thinking about them. Your work displays such passion and is the best way I know as an editing teacher to demonstrate how to cut to music. Films are about performance, story and content to me and both these films thru the editing communcate that with heart-felt power. We need (it is my view) more human films and we need more films that are cut with sensitivity over speed.
Re: Philadelphia- That Opera scene WAS beautiful. The connection you made between those characters.. and with the performances.. it was just so emotional. As an audience member, you really turn the page along with Washington and feel the pain that Hanks has been feeling his whole life.
Can you explain what you meant by “temporal” cuts? I have never heard of that term before.
Greg,
You should take a look at early Russian filmmakers, like Eisenstein or Pudovkin! The “Temporal cut” is their term and is different from say the “Jump cut.” For example, if you see a man starting to climb the steps of a building, and before he enters you cut inside to see the same man pushing the door open — that’s a “Temporal cut.” With this edit you’ve jumped out some time, but the mind reads it as a continuous action. As opposed to the “Jump cut,” which usually happens within the same shot. I used several “Temporal cuts” in “Philadelphia” to move the courtroom scenes forwards and also in “The Silence of the Lambs” just before Hannibal starts to eat the prison guard ’s cheek–sorry for the gruesome detail!
Oh, right. I know what you’re talking about. I just didn’t know it was called a “temporal” cut.
I am quite familiar with Eisenstein and Pudovkin! In fact, they were some of the people I studied in my first editing class, along with Leni Riefenstahl and a few others. Although, that was a while ago, so I don’t remember everything I studied about them. I need to brush up on my film history! I have a bunch of books sitting in my library that I haven’t read in years. Some of them actually include interviews with you (Off the top of my head it was either “Selected Takes” or “First Cut,” or both). Have you read those interviews recently? Must be interesting to conduct an interview then see what you said years later since we are constantly growing as people and professionals.
Out of curiosity, who are some editors, or filmmakers in general, that have inspired you? Either present day, or past. What are your professional influences?
Raul,
I’ve not done much changing of the intent of a scene, although I’m sure it happens all the time, but I have done a lot of dialogue inversions. In “The Silence of the Lambs” when Clarice tells Hannibal a butterfly was found in the mouth of Benjamin Raspail–the entire dialogue for that scene was inverted– it used to start with the “Butterfly” and end with “Quid Pro Quo–it was very difficult to change, but we all thought it played better with the inversion.
Greg,
Yes, every once in awhile I do look back on the interviews I did–just to see if I knew what I was talking about! There a lot of editors and writers that have had a major influence on me–Dede Allen, Barry Malkin, Alan Heim, Evan Lottman (these were my mentors) but some of my favorites are Richard Marks, Claire Simpson, Richard Chew–listen, I better stop right here–there are so many fine editors that I have much respect for–I’m gonna just stop. As for writers influencing my work–hands down it’s William Strunk!
Hi Craig,
This is a bit off topic but what do you look for in an interview. What questions are most valuble to ask an editor to understand and appreciate what they do that impacts onthe story, characters, and content?
Vinny,
I think questions about the intuitive process of editing are far more interesting then the mechanics–how do you know emotionally what a scene needs? How can you tell the truth of an actor’s performance? How do you know when to stop working on a scene? How do know when your assembly is playing? What process tells you all of this.
Thanks for your blog!
I teach an introductory editing class for undergraduates. I am always trying to improve editing assignments that will help them to focus on skills that an editor must have. Do you have any suggestions?
Ellen,
I believe we learn editing by doing–that being said, here a few exercises.
1.) Cut a scene to music only (montage).
2.) Cut a scene to music with dialogue.
3.) Cut a scene and replace all the dialogue with performances from other takes.
4. Cut a scene using only singles tied together by sound overlaps.
5.) Cut a scene using different size shots to orchestrate the narrative.
6.) Read: “The Art of Dramatic Writing” by Lajos Egri for storytelling.
Craig, excellent workshop suggestions. Hi Ellen K if I may, here are a few assignments that always work for me. I have them write a 7 page paper designed to deepen their understanding of the editing process, to learn about editors and the films they’ve cut etc. Some of the topics I offer them are: Select 3 films edited by a single editor and discuss their work.
Select a single director who has worked with different editors and discuss the impact this has made on the director’s work
Analyze and discuss a specific editing technique – examples – intercutting, jumpcut, montage
Compare the editing technique of 2 different chase scenes or 2 two-character dialogue scenes
Analyze in detail a single sequence from the editing standpoint
I also give them a glossary work book with the terms but no answers. Each week I do a page or so, telling them everything one would want to know about that term and they write in their version of the definition, they also ask questions, give examples of their own and get into great discussions.
Hope you find these helpful.
Thanks so much for the teaching suggestions.
Can you explain what you mean by “3.) Cut a scene and replace all the dialogue with performances from other takes.” ? Or possibly, explain how you do that?
Off the top of my head it just seems like the audio wouldn’t match the picture. I mean, I’ve done ADR work before, where the actor is trying to match their performance, but to match a different take’s audio with another picture.. just seems like it would be noticeable. How do you pull it off? I don’t even know if you can even answer this question here. Seems like something you would have to actually demonstrate. But, I thought I’d ask anyways.
Greg,
This is a suggested exercise for learning how to cheat different line readings into a cut. If you look at my “Tricks of the Trade,” I give an example in ” Bad Pieces.” I have often used dialogue from other takes to make a performance work– line replacement is not always an ADR situation.
Hi everyone,
Excuse me for interupting a great conversation I just wanted to thank Ellen K. It was my pleasure and honor to humbly speak about my teaching techniques.
To Craig and Gregg great back and forth! Many years ago I had an SVA Thesis student who was enormously talented and in fact was a seventies film expert. I was asked to come to our Avid Lab and screen a scene he and his editor had been working on. I always try to not look at the timeline to see how many cuts there are in the scene but unfortunately this time I did but put it out of my mind. They ran the scene which contained two characters in an over-the-shoulder - shot/reverse shot situation. When it was over they asked me what I thought. Of course they did a fine job and I told them so but I had to tell them that I was amazed how many cuts it took and how they cheated lines even words from other takes. That to me is one of the real arts of editing. Every chance I get I recall that story to my editing class.
Again sorry for the interuption and carry on in the spirit in which you were moving forward in.
Peace,
Vinny
Excellent blog Craig! Considering the amount of daily work that you are involved in, keeping this blog updated and answering to comments shows the level of your commitment of sharing your artistic vision with us. Thank you for your effort!
Just a quick question, maybe a bit off-topic: are you personally (as an editor) involved in designing, texturing and rendering titles, opening credits, etc or this is someone else’s job? If this kind of work isn’t done by the editor, as a general rule who does it in the industry and when during the workflow process in post? I’ve seen many times very well designed titles and opening credits and I always wondered whether the editor designed it or not? My pure, unexperienced guess would be that its’a a job for the SFX team or something similar. Any clarification on this topic would be much apreciated
Many thanks
Newbie,
Most of the time I layout the titles myself–that means I decide where they go and for how long the stay on–everything then gets turned over to a title house for the design aspect. Sometimes the title house will end up doing both the layout and design–a lot depends on the shots themselves and how they’re used in the sequence. The main titles are usually decided on somewhere during the director’s cut– a ten week period before the pix is locked.
Here’s what I do:
The Main Title gets 5 seconds with a 24 frame fade in and fade out inclusive.
A one name card gets 4 seconds with a 24 frame fade in and fade out inclusive.
A two name card gets 5 seconds with a 24 frame fadein and fade out inclusive.
A three name card gets 6 seconds with a 24 frame fade in and fade out inclusive.
A four name card gets 7 seconds with a 24 frame fade in and fade out inclusive.
Craig, I’ve been reading regularly your blog for the last couple of months now and finally here’s my first post. Just as “newbie” mentioned earlier, first of all I’d like to thank you too for your effort in updating this blog and helping the younger generation getting an insight into the first line of trully artistic and professional editing.
I was thinking long before posting, even now when I’m typing I’m thinking that maybe I’ll not submit this post, who knows…
I’m in one of the biggest dilemas of my life, torn between reality and aspirations. I’m a 32 years old lecturer in Multimedia and Computer Games Technology at an UK University and I want to make a move and change my career because I know deep inside that my real calling is film, or to be more precise-film editing. I’m a keen photographer with a nice portfolio, I’ve been editing a couple of self-made documentaries, I’ve been writing several scripts and I even teach Narative Structures as part of my lectures on a Games Development course. Not to mention the computing side of it(Final Cut Studio, etc.), which I’m up-to-date with.
But that’s it! I haven’t done anything at a professional level. When reading through your blog, it was reinforced upon me the idea that I do posses the basic skills required for starting a career in film editing. The only thought tormenting me is: am I too old to start now?
I know exactly what lays before me, how many years of learning and practising, how many sleepless nights trying to master the perfect cut for a scene, how many times away from your family (more often because your mind is far away, mastering your art), etc. Well, I’m ready for all of it! And not just me, my wife too is all behind me and understands exactly the amount of work I need to put up with.
I’ve attempted already twice in the last 15 years to make a step into the industry but everytime something came up that kept me away from my dreams: first I had to leave everything behind and emigrate to UK (I’m a British Citizen now for many years) where I couldn’t work in the industry not even as a runner because of - then - visa requirements. When finaly I have had my papers right and again I wanted to make a move, I have met my actual wife and I would have lost her had I decided to carry on with my aspiration of being a film editor (this is a rather long story).
Now, in my early 30’s I want to try again. I’m planning to learn anything it is there to learn about the art of editing and also about the “tech side” of the job for the next 2 years, but just you have said, there are many cutters in the world, but few editors. Well, I want to be an editor and I know what I mean. Teaching in the computing field for over 5 years now I know exactly what you were trying to say by that.
In my plan, after a year or so, I’m thinking of contacting several post houses and try to see if any of them will accept me working as a volunteer on some small projects they’ve got so that I could start learning about working in a more professional environment and also building my portfolio of work. Also, at that stage I’m planning on contacting young filmakers keen on submitting their work to various film festivals and volunteer to colaborate on editing their work. Then, when I’ll think I have enough skill and knowledge, I’ll just apply for my first job with a production house and see where it goes from there. This might be after about 5-7 years from now, maybe even later but at least I have tried.
So Craig, in the end you maybe wondering: so what do you want from me?
Well, considering that you have spent a lifetime with the best of the best, knowing each and every secret of the trade, do you think honestly that this is a realistic plan for me or am I just dreaming away at boarding a train that has just left the station many years ago?
I would very much apreciate your honesty if you’d answer my post. That’s why I have decided to actually send it in the end, because I really want an impartial and honest opinion from a real professional.
Many thanks,
George
George,
I know that question was for Craig, but I just wanted to say, follow your heart. Whatever the outcome ends up being, you can always say you followed your dream. For me personally, I would much prefer to fail, than to do nothing and wonder “what if..” Life’s too short to have regrets. And to me it’s not about the final destination; It’s about the journey and all the friends you make along the way
George,
This blog was initiated to discuss the art and aesthetics of editing–that being said, I am aware of how much our feelings are at play in the process. Your question to me is a question that only you can answer. I think you have come up with a wise plan and should follow it–more importantly I also think, like Greg, that it be centered on building strong relationships with directors, editors, and producers–people– not companies. So, if you know that you truly have “the fire in the belly”– the real determination to answer every “No” with a “Next,” then simply do it! As always, finding the joy only comes when the fear is left behind. I wish you the very best of luck–keep on contributing!
Well Greg and Craig, what can I say…
Thank you for being honest with me, that’s exactly what I need it.
One thing is certain and Greg was right: life’s too short to be kept back by second thoughts and I know that ultimately I am the one who decides what to do with my life and sharing my thoughts with you is one little step of my long journey ahead.
You know, an old asian proverb says that long journeys start with short steps.
So here I am, ready for my next move. Hope that one day I’ll meet you for real and I’ll try to make that day come sooner rather that later
Many thanks once more to both of you and I’ll definitely try to be an active member of this blog and from time to time I’ll keep you posted with news about my projects.
Good day,
George
Очень интересно и занимательно было почитать.
Translation: Very interesting and entertaining to read it.
Hello Sir
I am an editing student. And I would like to hear something about pacing from you. As far as my little editng experience is concerend, I understand pacing as the frequency of cuts you make to heighten the emotional experience of a scene.
For example, say in a scene where two lead characters are having a discussion and then suddenly one of them loses his temper and gets violent.
Given this kind of scene I will try to avoid cutting during the discussion part and will have very few cuts and as the certain character gets violent I will increase the rate of cutting…
Please comment on this.
Hi Craig,
Got to start by saying great website and a really interesting discussion amongst professionals and enthusiasts alike.
I notice that most of the discussion has centered around cutting drama/features, but that you are also a documentary editor.
I’d like to ask a question about your approach at the early organisational stage of a project. Do you have a fixed project structure that you apply from film to film (i.e. bins for GV’s, for each character in the film, for individual scenes, for locations etc) or do you organise on a case by case basis depending on what material the film presents you with. What is your process for watching documentary rushes and the accompanying logging/notetaking that goes with it?
Also, most features editors seem to have a project structure that they stick to, are comfortable with and the assistant manages this side of things. Do you work with an assistant in the same way on a documentary.
Lastly on a feature the script provides the initial structure (of course it is often modified in the course of editing). How do you approach structuring a documentary. I have seen cards or post-it on the wall systems. I’ve seen very meticulous paper edits. I’ve seen edits where almost all the structuring simply happens in the Avid with no auxiliary materials (more unusual to be sure). I’d be really interested to hear how you approach it.
Keep up the great work…
Pradip,
Pacing, as you might suspect, is not totally dependent on the frequency of cuts alone—there are other considerations. Although fast cutting can raise the intensity of a scene, it must be justified. Otherwise, the editor is just imposing himself on the material—that’s sometimes called “Eye Candy” cutting. The story, the performances, and action in the scene– all contribute to the pacing of any given moment and must be considered. Actually, sometimes it’s better not to cut at all and simply let the moment play out. All the decisions that you will make require a keen understanding of how the scene works in the story—what’s its job. The scene as shot and performed will dictate the pacing
Hi Craig,
Another issue that I often encounter is working out the transitions from scene to scene.
How do you tackle the transitions? Are these transitions finalized at the script level or one stumbles upon them during editing?
What does your experience say?
Do you have some guidelines to offer in this area?
Sorry to interupt - but I just wanted to say that Dede Allen told me that the wonderful transitions in Slaughter-House Five were challenging to work out. They had been scripted but she and director George Roy Hill did a lot of experimenting in Post.
Pradip,
Vinny is absolutely correct. I worked on “Slaughter-House Five” and the transitions are truly remarkable. Most transitions are designed at script-level, during the shoot, in the edit, or in visual effects. A large percentage of transitions though, are figured out in the cutting room. A clear idea of going from one time and place to another is essential for the story being told. Transitions are a way to keep the story engine moving—that’s its function.
So, sometimes I will use a sound overlap before a cut to make a transition. Sometimes I will change the image size to introduce a new location –close to long shot. Sometimes I will cut out before the idea of a scene is complete—only to finish that idea later. Sometimes I’ve been known to use an old fashion wipe to make the transition — I use this only if it compliments the style of the film or when all else fails. Somewhere in the use of dialogue, image size, and sound effects is usually where you’ll find a transition — figuring out that alchemy is up to you.
Hi Craig,
I just started editing a short film that was shot in Portuguese, and I don’t understand a word of the language. I subtitled all of the footage, exported it, and re-imported it to use as an offline edit. After wards, I will reconnect it with the clean footage so we can do color and nice subtitles. Anyways, I was wondering if you had any tips or suggestions for editing a film in a language that isn’t native to you. As it stands, I’m working primarily off the actions and when I want to get more detailed in cutting between lines, I work closely with the Director whom understand what is being said. Any thoughts?
Great blog. Lots to comment on, agree and disagree with. Wish this blog had been around when I was starting my career. But, for now, just a quick comment on George Seba’s dilemma. I was twenty-eight when I started as an apprentice at Paramount and didn’t start editing (officially) until I was thirty-eight. (In those days, the union required you to apprentice/assist for a minimum of eight years). I thought I would never get an editing break, but finally I did. There were many difficult personal and professional decisions that had to be made along the way, none of them easy. So I just wanted to say to George that he shouldn’t let his age be an excuse for not pursuing his dream of being an editor. Patience and perseverance worked for me.
Hi Michael,
I have no fixed structure that I apply to organizing a documentary—each film requires different considerations. What I usually end up doing is all premise related—what’s the film’s central the idea. After viewing dailies, I have everything transcribed, and my assistant precedes to breakdown those elements into theme blocks that will help me build the story—like main characters, relevant events, interviews, stock footage, etc, —its all very straight forward!
At one point in time, I used to take copious notes on the material, cut and paste transcriptions, and put up index cards—but not that much anymore. I now put on my storytelling hat and structure every thing in Avid. I find that working with the actual material out of bins gives me a better overview of story and helps create better physical edits. Of course, that doesn’t mean I’ve totally abandoned all of my previous organizational methods—I use whatever method is best for the film.
Greg,
It sounds like you’re using the right approach. Editing a film, which is not in your own language, is not that difficult as long as its sub-titled and you’ve got someone nearby who speaks the language. Last year I edited a film called “Sin Nombre” which was in Spanish, of which I speak only a few words. It was subtitled, and like you, the director was there to answer questions. I simply followed the action, and made my edits based on the actor’s emotions and what the story needed. Wish I could be more helpful, but you seem to have figured it out already.
Just a quick question that seems relatively simple. I’m cutting a scene where someone is reading a list of items, and we want to show each item as it’s being said. It’s supposed to kind of pop. Kind of rapid fire. A little fun. Showing item after item. And I’m just wondering that in these situations, if you would time the picture of the item straight up with the audio. Or, should you lead a little with the audio? Or, lead a little with the picture? My gut says you would want to lead a little with the audio because it may take a moment to process, but it’s feeling a little awkward when I do it. It’s supposed to be a fun scene, but it’s a not hitting it. Any suggestions?
Greg,
This is tricky. I would probably lead with the pix first then hear the audio. To me, that feels more like what someone might do while reading a list. In life, we see a word first before we say it. The thing that I’m not a fan of having the pix and audio happen at the same exact time—but who knows, that might work. Of course, you could always cut to whoever is reading just to break things up. I think you just have to try whatever it takes to make the scene play—mess around!
This post is in response to Greg’s “list” question. It’s likely he’s already edited the scene a number of times over, but I thought it was a good opportunity to bring up one of my theories of editing that has served me extremely well over the years. I call it the baseball analogy. It is very basic and simple- Make the effort to mix your pitches. Just like a pitcher in baseball who attempts to throw only fastballs to a hitter, eventually that pitcher will see that the batter figures out the pace of the pitches and eventually hits the ball hard somewhere. Editing pace can have the same effect on an audience in that if an editor keeps on making the same type of cuts using similar mechanics and in similar rhythms, he runs the risk of lulling the audience into complacency. Things become predictable and uninteresting. Especially in your situation of the recitation of a list of items and the need to show each item. Therefore my approach would be to mix the cuts, prelap sound on a couple, straight cut another, postlap sound on another couple and maybe go to the on camera dialogue once as Craig suggested. You obviously do not want to make a mish-mash of it, but if you subtly change the cut points vis-a-vie the sound, you will have something that keeps the audience slightly off balance and engaged because they are seeing something a tiny bit “new” with every cut you make. I use this method quite a bit in just about every scene I cut regardless of whether it’s an action sequence, a dialogue sequence, or an expository sequence like the “list” sequence you were asking about. Keep in mind you don’t need to go crazy in your variations, the audience’s internal pace meters are quite sensitive and will pick up the tiniest of differences and be enriched by it. With this approach, you might find that you will see the “pop” and “fun” you are looking for in the sequence.
“Cut with your gut”
So true, I’ve been editing commercial, corporate and Documentary films for the last 7 years…so in other words still evolving. I just recently got the chance to be the assembly editor on set of my first narrative Feature film with name talent involved. Coming from an advertising / corporate world it was very exciting for me to cut narrative work! It was quite interesting to see the final cut as the director and editor used quite a few of my sequences untouched in the film. The scenes I am most proud of were the scenes I connected with emotionally the most and hence the scenes that didn’t change in the film.
Its funny cause when I talk to others about my experience on the film and they ask what I do, I tell them, “I listen, and respond.” Yes, I do get confused reactions and funny looks. But, I try to ‘bond’ with the scenes and let them tell me what they want to be, and then work to get them there.
Question: How do you work as far as temp music/score is concerned in an early assembly or first cut of a film. Different editors I have spoken with have different opinions about this. On the film I worked, I found music and a score with variations of that similar score that I used to help enhance the mood of certain scenes. I kept bringing it in throughout the piece so to give the director as much of an immersive experience of his film as possible. But some editors I’ve spoke with say this can backfire stating what’s in the directors mind might throw them off with your temp score and they will just find it distracting.
Anyhow, thanks for the great blog…
Mike Burton
Mike,
I like to cut with music, but only if the temp score really works for the scene. Trial and error along with some skillful music editing always helps. As for disorienting your director, I don’t see how you can successfully present a first cut without some music in it. The real trick is not to overdo it, be judicious and use it sparingly—don’t blanket the film with wall-to-wall music. Of course, it wouldn’t hurt to find out how your director feels about using music before you start your cut.
Thanks for an awesome blog, Craig.
Quick question: I’ve been offered a job as an advertising editor (TV commercials) at an offline post-production house that I am going to accept. This will be my first professional job. Being an aspiring film editor, is there anything that you reckon I should look out for or be aware of as an aspiring film editor editing commercials?
Any bad habits that I might get into without realizing it that might handicap my ability as a film editor in the future? It may sound like a silly question, but it will be the first professional editing environment that I’ll work in and knowing what to be aware of just might be beneficial later down the line.
Also, might the position get me labeled as an “advertising editor” in the industry and hinder my chances of getting a job in film post-production?
Thanks again for such a great site!
Hi Craig, just a quick question. In your opinion, what separates the “great” editors from the “good” editors? Work habits? Attention to details? Professionalism? Sense of story? You name it! There are just so many good editors out there, and then there are the Dede Allens, the Alan Heims, ect that just stick out to you. The editors that have made a major impact on the industry. What makes those editors so special? How does an editor reach a level like that? To some, this may sound like a silly question, but in any industry, it’s fairly easy to point out the difference makers. The one’s who are making their mark. The one’s who are consistently doing amazing things. And it has to be more than raw talent. What are your thoughts?
Hi Craig,
eagerly waiting for “Editing Concepts” & “Tricks of the Trade” updates.
Pradip,
More soon-I’ve had a very heavy work schedule lately.
Greg,
This is not an easy question to answer, even though I’ve personally known some of the great editors that you’ve mentioned. Simply, most of them have the ability to express a deep passion for what they do to everyone around them–freely giving of their talent as a storyteller without fear. They all have great people skills and a sharp understanding of human motives. All of this is conveyed by the work they do, but it’s really “the fire in the belly,” that sets them apart and causes a rise to the top.
I have had that “fire in the belly”, that you mentioned, since high school when I first realized then that editing was my passion. I graduated from college recently with a film degree, but had more education on film theory than on production. I have been praised with the little work I’ve done, but I have a huge confidence problem. I am terrified of the technical side of editing. When it comes to editing itself, I am fully confident in my ability to have an understanding for piecing together footage in a way that makes me creatively stand out and see things others don’t see. The only thing standing in my way of being aggressive about finding work is I just feel like I haven’t mastered the technical side of editing. I am afraid of encountering problems I haven’t had and being unable to move forward… if that makes sense. I want so badly to confidently take people’s footage and get the job done for them. I’ve been among people who are arrogant and cocky and say “I know Final Cut / Avid like the back of my hand, there is nothing I can’t do.” But creatively they are incapable of contributing anything original and unique. They seem to have no passion for it, just technical knowledge and skill of the programs. So I feel like I could really shine if I could master the technical side. Do you have any suggestions for the best way to go about gaining that? If you have any suggestions on people I could write to and potentially shadow or apprentice that would be great. Any other advice would be appreciated as well. Thanks!
Dear Nile,
I understand you have write this compeling message to Craig but as a teacher and writer on film it caught my idea and I thought I may be able to give you some guidance. Your education and training will always serve you well. For me one can’t be a good editor without understanding the concepts and analitical elements of what makes movies work. A good editor must have both aesthetic understanding and technical skills. In my view there is only one way to master the technical skils which is practice, practice practice. I strongly believe as does Walter Murch in the power of three. If you can sucessfully accomplish a task three times you can then move on. You are right in looking for people you can sit with and observe their FCP or Avid skills. I know you will acheive your quest. Never give up - keep moving forward and your goals and dreams and aspirations will all come to you so you can be the editor you want to be.
Peace,
Vinny
Nile,
You should really try to get an internship, or post-production assistant gig, and eventually move your way up until you are an assistant. I was in a similar situation as you two years ago. My best advice for you is to assist in anyway possible, at any place that has either FCP or AVID, and an MCR that has various decks. It doesn’t even matter WHERE it’s at. Just take any job that has those things. Once you learn those technical things, you can put it on your resume and grab a more preferable job. Don’t put a lot of pressure on yourself, what people think of you, ect. You are there for one reason, and that is to learn. Learn, learn, learn, learn, learn and eventually you will get what you want.
Thank you Vinny and Greg for your responses. It helps to hear words of encouragement and advice. I did have an internship at a television production company in my last semester of college. I really wish I had sought those out sooner and done at least one more. It’s a lot harder to find those opportunities once out of college. They have since interviewed me for a position with their company, but it is too soon to know what will become of that. Also, it wouldn’t be an editing job.
I have something else I’d like to throw out there if anyone has anything to say about it… has anyone heard of The Edit Center in NYC? I’ve looked into going there and even stopped in to check out the facility. It looks like a great place to gain the confidence I’m looking for as far as learning the technical side of editing. It costs a lot of money and there are no guarantee’s for a job afterward. Also, it doesn’t not include room and board. Does anyone have any opinion about that place or feel like it would be a good move? I would definitely not say it would be a waste of money because it could only help… but do you feel like there would be a wiser choice to make in my position?
I hope I don’t sound like a broken record with my questions and doubts. I’m just waiting for what I have inside of me to flourish so I can do something worthwhile and progress.
Nile,
I’m so glad that our remarks were helpful. Yes I have heard about the Edit Center and they were all good. In fact a student of mine was trying to get me to lecture about aesthetics there but nothing ever came of it. They have visiting editors and each one is a star in their own right. I’m told the training is excellent so it boils down to the eternal problem of money. If you have the money and the payments won’t leave you dead broke you should do it. Do you know anyone in the Apple maybe they can put you up. That’s right there is no job guarantee but I feel that graduating from there is probably a bigger plus than graduating from SVA or any of the west coast film schools I may be wrong but then again its up to you. I wish you all the luck in the world. Make sure you learn the aesthetics as well (notice how I snuck in the goal of this blog to talk about the art not technical aspects of editing) There are such courses in the apple as well as in most big cities I would think. Again Happy Thanksgiving to all and remember Nile we’re all behind you.
V
Nile, Vinny, and Greg,
I’m very pleased that all of you are using this blog to have the kind of meaningful conversation that I hoped would happen. That said Nile, you’ve received some excellent suggestions, but there is one issue that needs more attention. If you truly have “The Fire in the Belly,” nothing will get in the way of you becoming a great editor.
But if there’s an obstacle between you and your goal—what’s the way forward? Simply put, your deep passion will help you get past your fear of technical proficiency—take the leap!
I also had the same fear in the beginning, but after much patience, practice, and learning to trust my intuition, I eventually overcame it. You can learn everything you need to technically know—there is no obstacle! Throw your fear away. There are plenty of tutorials for Avid and FCP on the Internet, and yes if you can afford it, there are courses everywhere—but this still won’t make you a great editor—there’s so much more to know. So, balance your focus to also include a strong knowledge of premise, story, performance, and music.—all of these can be learned—including the technical stuff. All the best to your efforts!
If someone wanted to get a degree, what would be the rout to take? I’m a freshman in a community college, but i have been doing editing for my school. Unfortunately i am in Houston, and the entertainment field is not encouraged much. So i was thinking about getting my bachelors in film, and then my master in the entertainment business. Is this a good idea as well or no? Please get back to me when you can. Thanks for your time.
Jinae,
I would definitely consider film school. It will give you the opportunity to meet other filmmakers outside of Houston who could help you to reach your goal. As for a Masters Degree, it couldn’t hurt, but its not all together necessary for getting work in the industry. There are many film schools all around the country–do some research and find the one that can work for you, and after that consider moving to a place where there is a larger film community.
Best of luck!
Awesome site Mr. McKay! I find tips from of an editor of your stature priceless, and would love to hear more.
I’m an assistant editor in Los Angeles, my work has been mostly with reality TV and DVD special features. I’ve been working for the past 5 years, have a great assistant resume, and make a union rate without being in the union.
My question is, will you hire me as a post-production apprentice on your next feature =) And if not… if I were to join the union would they help at all with placing me on a feature film? Are there any other ways you would recommend that could help me accomplish this goal?
Craig,
In a word owned by, and borrowed from, a colleague of ours, “nice”.
Matt,
I mostly hire people who have already worked for me before I consider anyone else–I’m very loyal! Once in a while, a position will open up, and only then I will hire a very highly qualified person. Also, if you want to work on a major studio film, you will need to join the union, but it won’t place you on one. You need to get to know and meet the
people who actually edit features–you could start by passing your resume around to their assistants as a possible way in.
Jerry,
Thanks, Blackie is definitely “The Man!”
Thank you! I appreciate the advice. I’m going to join the union in January and go from there. Hopefully network at some of their events. Best of luck in 2010!
Hi Craig,
If there is one thing that totally stumps me when someone ask my opinion about it is “use of dissolves”.
Please share your insight on this issue.
I have come across many situations when I feel a cut works perfect , but people involved get it replaced with a dissolve.
I have seen people going for slow dissolves when they need a slow pace to their story. Personally , I feel the unnecessary dissolves do nothing other than destroying the image.
Hi Craig,
This is great, so much knowledge for a junior like me.
I am a Ugandan (East Africa) and new to film production. I work with a local Production house that mainly does documentaries and local corporate adverts. I have no history of film school. I have learned all that I know from my mentor (who is the Director of the production house). I joined the company very low as a cleaner but have managed to work my self up into Assistant editor in the one year I have been here.
Reason I have written all this is to give a brief background of me in the film Industry.
I want to become a very professional editor and my goal is to get to a level of editing big budget features like you are doing. Can any one advise me on how to get from down here where I am to up there? My current strategy is to research online for anything posts on editing (that is how I found out this blog). I write down notes which I use for my study. There is no film school here and going abroad is too expensive in my current state. Please any one, advise me on how to develop into a great editor.
Dear Pradip,
I know Craig will be answering this most compelling question but I saw it and felt compelling to comment. It’s fascinating how we go thru period where dissolve are fashionable and times when hard cuts seem to be dominant. It’s fascinating to me because many moons ago when I interviewed Craig for a book on editing I wrote the use of dissolves came up and he said that Jonathan Demme would like to put a dissolved between every cut in the film. To an extent Craig was kidding to make his point about when dissoves are necessary and when they are not. I would say that when directors like George Stevens called for very long dissolves as oppossed to the classical one second - we were launched into a new kind of editing one that related one shot to another in a more connective fashion than before. So do dissolves harm or confuse the content of an image - they can if chosen poorly - to me the magical dissolve which we all love is when one image fits into a place on the other image that provides a perfect transition. So my advice to you is to either put in or not put in dissolves whether they are short or long but with diplomacy of course “insist” that the director plead his or her case if they can’t, won’t or they wind up agree with you the movie is well served. I close with a shout-out to Jerry Greenberg and ask they he contacts me through Craig of course.
Peace to all,
Vinny LoBrutto
Hi Vinny
You put it best when you talked about magical dissolve.
Assistant Editor — what do you look for in an AE? Experience? Devotion? Organization? Being a young AE myself I want to know what an experienced editor looks for in his/her assistant(s).
Craig Thanks for your invitation, your blog is very interesting and certainly compare our ideas with those of others is very interesting and informative, so thanks again. I hope that my english is understandable.
What I can say is the about the mounting is crucial to the success of the film. Assemble as we well know, means to stick together the pieces of film, give him an order which will emerge from the film: its history, its rhythm, its meaning. I do not think there is a mounting technology better than another, much less a code upper and lower: each film is a different story.
Craig, you know what think of the relationship among Writer, director, editor. Eg:
The writer tells a story, but during the installation (him which is another way of telling) will become another story that allows you to simplify the plot, understand the breath of the film. The presence of the writer in this case is fundamental because it is the guarantor of the story and must protect her, because the director tends to focus on the whole big picture, editor rhythm and screenwriter instead continuing to focus on the plot, the relationship between characters.
Often the director tends to distort the story and and not just and I get angry grrrrr!!!!
Hi Craig, just stumbled across your website. Very glad to see it’s here. I’ve worked for years as an assistant editor and just finished cutting my first feature. Most of my learning has been through trial and error as well as with guidance from the editors I’ve worked for. Every so often I have looked for books on editing, but I’m usually less than impressed. Most of them tend to be outdated tech books or the same old rehashing of the history of editing theory. When I saw your list of “rules” such as “Never cut out of a shot before the actor’s dialogue is finished” I wished there was book that stayed in the realm of your shot to shot suggestions. Anything come to mind? If not, I’m eagerly awaiting yours.
@Brent Joseph
Hi Brent
Which books have you gone through?
Brent, you should subscribe to CinemaEditor magazine. Your head will be spinning with useful information.
Pradip,
Sorry for the delay—I’ve been busy lately! First, I believe that dissolves should be used judiciously. I use them only to indicate a time transition—by that I mean the passage of time. You may use one or several in succession depending on the time passage you need to represent. Also equally important to me is the length of the dissolve and how the shots combine with each other. The length of the dissolve needs to compliment the rhythm of the narrative, while the composition of the selected shots must merge in way that maintains the strength of the images. With that said, my preference is to use only straight cuts in conjunction with sound to make transitions. Also, I use fades only at the beginning and at the end of a film. I feel that fades used in the body of a film can hinder he forward movement of the story engine.
Ciao Craig,
I agree with everything you say. A good editor should give rhythm and breathing is fundamental to the film. An assembly can determine the success or failure of the film, actors, photographers, etc … the editor is coauthor with screenwriter and director, and because with its cutbacks, offers the public its version, his way of telling, which can contribute to success or not (depends on its sensitivity, experience and skill) and when it prevails the director in his choices, so that his work is not be penalized. Obviously it is desirable that the two will establish a certain feeling.
Hi Craig,
The question about dissolves made me think of another question.
What’s your theory on jump cut usage?
Greg,
Simply put, I’m not a big fan of jumps cuts in narrative story telling. I think that they’re over used and have become a cliché. But when jump cuts are used to express a moment of conflict or state of confusion in a narrative film, they can be very effective—when sustained through out a narrative they can work against the suspension of disbelief. On the other hand, jumps cuts have become the standard in documentaries where it’s not always necessary to suspend disbelief.
My preference in narrative film is to use “Temporal cuts.” (See comment #57) Jump cuts ask the audience to make an adjustment in terms of how the story moves through time and space—that stops the forward movement of the narrative—and because the cut is visible, the audience is asked to stay in the same place, even though the narrative is moving forward—that’s the adjustment!
For narrative storytelling, I practice” The Invisible Art of Film Editing.”
Hi Craig,
In the spirit of award season, I was wondering what your favorite edited films of the year were. What stood out to you and why?
Greg,
Since I’m a member of both the Academy and A.C.E., I don’t feel its proper for me to publicly pick favorites during this pre-award season.
Craig,
I’m sorry. I didn’t realize I would be putting you on the spot with that question.
-Greg
Hi,
I just discovered your blog! So cool! I was wondering if you could share some stories about editing “Something Wild”? I saw the film in the theatre when I was 10 and have always admired the sharp shift in tone the film has.
We are going into post on a low-budget film.
Our director wants to receive credit as an editor even though he is not physically doing any of the editing. He is wanting to call all of the shots to say cut here, move that here, add a dissolve here, etc. But he doesn’t know Final Cut or Avid and has never edited before so he is looking for someone to just “be his hands.” If he does that but never touches the editing equipment, should he get an editing credit?
Looking for advice on this.
Thank you,
R.H.
Ray,
This blog only discusses the aesthetics of film editing, but I feel this is important—so here are a few thoughts. This is situation in not unusual for low-budget non-union films. If you were a union member, you would be protected in this instance because the director is not a member. Obviously, in this case you have no protection unless it is stated in a contract with your producers—for example, a single card with you as the editor, but if you agree to be “a pair of hands,” without any contractual language—then your only option is your personal decision to take the job or let it go.
To those who might not have heard, Dede Allen has passed on - she was 86 years old. In a forum for the aesthetics of the art of editing I must sing the praises of a motion picture editor who revolutionized our art and craft. It was an honor to spend a full 8 hour day interviewing her for my book on editing. Her philosophy was simple - cut for story and performance - nothing else really mattered. As a New Yorker we have lost the leader of the New York School of editing but gained a list of masterpieces, Bonnie and Clyde, The Hustler, and Reds just to scratch the surface. We also gained an “army” of editors of which the creator of this wonderful blog is a part. We won’t see her kind pass through the editing suites again.
Dede Allen’s passing is a sad loss. She was a fantastic editor, and from what others have said an inspiring and very genuine person.
Well said Michael. Stephen Rotter who worked with Dede Allen, presented the Outstanding Editing Award at the SVA Dusty Awards about two weeks ago. In his remarks he talked about knowing and working with her, at the mention of her name, applause broke out. Later while presenting an Animation Award SVA’s own, Howard Beckerman told the audience that he knew Dede Allen back in the day and said a few words about her, again applause broke out at the mention of her name. It was another testiment to one of the best who ever cut a piece of film with a splicer or made an edit with a computer and mouse. Of course others on this wonderful site may sing Dede’s praises and as well I can hear her whispering in my ear, let’s get on with the next cut, the next movie, the next innovation - which of course is up to us.
Peace,
Vinny
Just want to say what a great blog you got here!
I’ve been around for quite a lot of time, but finally decided to show my appreciation of your work!
Thumbs up, and keep it going!
Cheers
Christian, iwspo.net
In 1977 I shared the ACE student film editing award with a young man from Mississippi named John Duffy. John went on to do great things in Hollywood and became a member of ACE. I took a different fork in the road and became a professional still photographer. Interestingly, this new world of “convergence” now dictates that I incorporate shooting video and editing into my repertoire. Thankfully, I find that the same tools (mainly a sense of visual rhythm) that worked for me on the old college 16mm Movieola have remained somewhere back in the cobwebs of my mind and are now excited to be learning their modern digital counterparts. I hope you don’t mind if an old new-comer adopts your blog as a source of inspiration.
Just want to say what a great blog you got here!
I’ve been around for quite a lot of time, but finally decided to show my appreciation of your work!
Thumbs up, and keep it going!
Cheers
Christian,Earn Free Vouchers / Cash
Earl,
I actually had the pleasure of meeting John Duffy a couple months ago when he spoke on a panel at an ACE intern event. Prior to the event, myself and two associates were given the opportunity to research his career and present the audience with a short biography. Afterward, Mr. Duffy was kind enough to speak with us individually to share his wisdom and advice. He is a very classy person.
I find it very interesting to read your comment about the ACE student award, because I specifically remember reading about that. Such a small world. It’s funny how connected we are as a society.
Hi Craig,
I just wanted to say that Babies was an absolutely wonderful film and that you did a fantastic job. It must have been very difficult to craft such an engaging story that is based around four different locations and with no dialog. Well, maybe three words or so.
I was wondering if you could talk about how you transitioned from baby to baby. It was very interesting because the babies are from all over the world, but yet you really start to really feel like they are all the same. And the editing had a big part of that- Making that connection between them all. Can you talk about that please? I’m very interested to hear about your thought process.
Thank you!
-Greg Whitlow
Where does this leave the digital “film” editor? I believe there is a certain quality and genuine mystique about traditional film. I do not care how much technology is involved. A traditional film cannot be duplicated at this point in time. Quality traditional film editors are artists, plain and simple.
Greg,
“Babies” was a very difficult documentary to edit–no narration, no dialogue, no subtitles and just a little music–but I’ve never had more fun! It’s whole narrative structure was based on creating a emotional line, which is something I also used in “Philadelphia.” The films form was simply constructed around the babies stages of development–birth, eating, crawling, talking, walking. The opening shot and the ending shot had been established early, so I knew where I was heading. The babies key moments were orchestrated by trial and error–they worked or they didn’t–sound familiar? I had great material to work with, Tomas Balmes the director/cameraman, Alain Chabot the producer, and studio head James Schamus at Focus Features pretty much left me alone to find the film. I was not hard to fall in love with these babies, and that’s exactly what got expressed.
Film editing seems like quite a highly skilled job to me. I take my hat off to all of the guys in this industry. I would love to be in a position to carry out this type of job.
You never know one day maybe I will
Hi Craig,
I was wondering if you (or anyone reading this) knows where I can get decent material for practicing editing. I have the software but really need material and was wondering if there was anything you were aware of that I could use.
THanks so much
Iain,
Sorry I don’t–it’s very hard because most original material is so highly protected. I know that some FCP instructors offer material with their lessons, although I don’t know where they find it.
Dear Craig: this is well overdue, and please accept my apologies for not being in touch earlier to tell you how very much I like your blog! It is hard to keep going, and surely you don’t write it every day; work comes first (as my wife tells me used to say to her when I was working!). I see you are still hard at work, and look forward to seeing “Babies”. Do you know if it’s scheduled to get a uk release?
On another matter, I have completed my memoirs, which are called “The Dream Repair Man”. The book just went to the printers, so should be available in about 6 weeks. I’ll keep you posted. Vincent LoButto read an early draft (when it was titled “Cut to the Bitch”) and seemed to enjoy it. I now know why very few editors write books! It’s hard to write without being libellous….
I tried to start a blog here a couple of years ago, but could not keep it up and it got very little response. You appear to be faring better! I’ll write again….
Hi Jim,
Thanks for the blog contribution. I’m very excited about your book”The Dream Repair Man,” and look forward to reading it. Yes, its very hard to keep the blog up, working as hard as we do. I look forward to your further comments–I would very much appreciate the wisdom that you could pass on to a new generation of editors–technology has surely overshadowed our art and craft– we need to turn that around.
Thanks, with much respect,
Craig
P.S. “Babies” has just started is European run, I’m not sure when it will hit the UK.
Hi Jim, Craig, and the whole wonderful community who exchange thoughts and feelings about editing here. Jim - I’m so proud of you in getting your book published. Can’t wait to read the final version. Guys, I read it in manuscript form and it was great then. The reel deal from a great editor!
Vinny LoBrutto
Hi Mr McKay,
Thank you so much for your eloquent blog. It is so rare to hear intelligent musings and approaches to storytelling through motion picture editing and life experience.
I myself will teaching an editing class this fall at Concordia University in Montreal. I was wondering if it would be possible to have a conversation with you and my class via skype if you were to have any free time. I am sure they could learn a lot from a person such as you.
Thanks again and best regards from Canada.
Korbett